From apple3info at verizon.net  Thu Oct 12 20:55:30 2006
From: apple3info at verizon.net (David Ottalini)
Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2006 20:55:30 -0400
Subject: [Apple3-L] Low Level Profile Formatting
Message-ID: <5CB49030-B721-4FD9-87CD-D27FCE2C31C8@verizon.net>


Folks.. I got a question from a ///er in Italy about doing a low  
level format on a Profile.

I found an old Tom Linders article that says:

----------------------------------------
Profile Low Level Formatting

by Tom Linders

/// SIG member John Lomartire recently asked about how to do a low  
level format of a Profile five or ten megabyte hard disk using an  
Apple ///.   Here's how you do it:

First of all you need:
   Apple ///
   Profile (5 or l0)
   Masked ROM (5 or l0)
   Formatting Disk or Debugger Disk (5 or lO)
   Two pin jumper
   LED substitute
   Profile I/F card
   Profile test disk (5 or l0)

As can be seen, it takes a different set of materials depending on  
the Profile under test. The five and ten meg Profile hard disk Assys,  
and Analog and Digital cards are not interchangeble.

The first thing you have to do is assemble the parts to do the  
formatting. This can be no mean task as there are only a few people  
in the USA that have everything needed. I have a set, as does Bruce  
Leitz, Dale Warnke, Bob Consorti (On Three), and Bob Cook (Sun  
Remarketing). I'm  sure there are more, but these are the ones that  
come to mind.
----------------------------------

But I don't have a specific Profile formatter in the PD library and  
the only debugger is a Pascal Pronto Debugger - would that work? I  
never had to do a low level format and never saw one of the Masked  
ROMs - which were nearly impossible to find in any case.


FYI - I am waiting for Dave Craig to finish work on the PD library -  
he should be pretty close. Once they're back here in Silver Spring,  
I'll add it to the DVD and let everyone know.


Thanks!

Dave

From louiss at gate.net  Thu Oct 12 21:58:35 2006
From: louiss at gate.net (Louis Schulman)
Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2006 21:58:35 -0400
Subject: [Apple3-L] Low Level Profile Formatting
In-Reply-To: <5CB49030-B721-4FD9-87CD-D27FCE2C31C8@verizon.net>
References: <5CB49030-B721-4FD9-87CD-D27FCE2C31C8@verizon.net>
Message-ID: <452EF2CB.9090109@gate.net>

After a great deal of effort, I did collect everything needed to 
low-level format a Profile (I think I only had the ROM and software for 
the 5 meg.)

I burned my own ROMs on a very hard to find chip with code someone had 
sent me. I seem to think the ROM and the software were from different 
versions, and this generated a few non-critical error messages.

All of this stuff was top secret Apple copyrighted stuff that they would 
never release.  Interestingly, the only way to low-level format a 
Profile for use with a Lisa was with a ///!  A Lisa couldn't do it.

In any event, if someone is interested, I can search my "archives" to 
see if I have some extra sets of chips and software.  It may take a 
while (like a month.)

Also, I remember paying a pretty hefty price for the chips several years 
ago. Maybe $25 a piece?  Anyway, I would like to cover my costs if I can 
come up with this stuff.

I found that low-level formatting could fix a fair percentage of 
mechanically sound but non-functioning profiles. Evidently, the drives 
go out of alignment, and this solves that problem.

Let me know if there is interest. At most I only have a few chips, 
though after I figure out which one it is maybe more could be discovered 
somewhere. I hope I still have the code and burner that can handle these 
old chips. It will also take me a while to remember how this was done. 
And of course, I will have to check to see that one of my Apple ///'s 
runs to check the software and ROMs.

BTW, I don't recall needing an "LED substitute", and of course you can't 
use a Profile without the interface card.

Conceivably, I may also have some extra Profiles and maybe interface 
cards, but again I would have to conduct a search.

Louis



David Ottalini wrote:
> Folks.. I got a question from a ///er in Italy about doing a low  
> level format on a Profile.
> 
> I found an old Tom Linders article that says:
> 
> ----------------------------------------
> Profile Low Level Formatting
> 
> by Tom Linders
> 
> /// SIG member John Lomartire recently asked about how to do a low  
> level format of a Profile five or ten megabyte hard disk using an  
> Apple ///.   Here's how you do it:
> 
> First of all you need:
>    Apple ///
>    Profile (5 or l0)
>    Masked ROM (5 or l0)
>    Formatting Disk or Debugger Disk (5 or lO)
>    Two pin jumper
>    LED substitute
>    Profile I/F card
>    Profile test disk (5 or l0)
> 
> As can be seen, it takes a different set of materials depending on  
> the Profile under test. The five and ten meg Profile hard disk Assys,  
> and Analog and Digital cards are not interchangeble.
> 
> The first thing you have to do is assemble the parts to do the  
> formatting. This can be no mean task as there are only a few people  
> in the USA that have everything needed. I have a set, as does Bruce  
> Leitz, Dale Warnke, Bob Consorti (On Three), and Bob Cook (Sun  
> Remarketing). I'm  sure there are more, but these are the ones that  
> come to mind.
> ----------------------------------
> 
> But I don't have a specific Profile formatter in the PD library and  
> the only debugger is a Pascal Pronto Debugger - would that work? I  
> never had to do a low level format and never saw one of the Masked  
> ROMs - which were nearly impossible to find in any case.
> 
> 
> FYI - I am waiting for Dave Craig to finish work on the PD library -  
> he should be pretty close. Once they're back here in Silver Spring,  
> I'll add it to the DVD and let everyone know.
> 
> 
> Thanks!
> 
> Dave
> _______________________________________________
> Apple3-L mailing list
> Apple3-L at news.altair.com
> https://news.altair.com/mailman/listinfo/apple3-l
> 

From michel at arneill-py.sacramento.ca.us  Thu Oct 12 23:34:05 2006
From: michel at arneill-py.sacramento.ca.us (Michel Py)
Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2006 20:34:05 -0700
Subject: [Apple3-L] Low Level Profile Formatting
In-Reply-To: <452EF2CB.9090109@gate.net>
Message-ID: <DD7FE473A8C3C245ADA2A2FE1709D90B1C8AD8@server2003.arneill-py.sacramento.ca.us>

My $0.02 about low level ProFile formatting:

- It IS good to do it from time to time. Unlike more recent hard disks,
the ProFile does not have any servo information embedded in the
low-level, so a software-based LLF is actually a real LLF (as opposed
to: low-level format a recent SCSI disk by using the low-level format
command or the Adaptec bios, it does not do jack).

- Thermal dilatation is important, which means low-level your ProFile
when is has been on for a while at typical room temp.

I remember for same-era MFM disks (especially the notoriously P.I.T.A
ST-225) that low-level formatting the drive every year or couple years
would give it much longer life.


On the following topic I have experience only on the 5 meg model, but I
believe it is valid for the 10 meg also:

Although the drive is physically a Seagate ST-506 (meaning: the
platters, motor, and R/W heads), the physical encoding is not MFM. The
controller board on the drive itself is proprietary to Apple, so don't
even think about formatting a ProFile in a PC. First, the connectors are
not the same. Second, even if you jerry-rig an MFM ST-506 controller to
a profile drive, it won't work (yes I have tried, flog me).


IMHO, this is one of the most important topics that has been discussed
on this mailing list for years.

Michel.


From michel at arneill-py.sacramento.ca.us  Thu Oct 12 23:40:30 2006
From: michel at arneill-py.sacramento.ca.us (Michel Py)
Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2006 20:40:30 -0700
Subject: [Apple3-L] Low Level Profile Formatting
In-Reply-To: <452EF2CB.9090109@gate.net>
Message-ID: <DD7FE473A8C3C245ADA2A2FE1709D90B1C8AD9@server2003.arneill-py.sacramento.ca.us>

Hi Louis,

> Louis Schulman wrote:
> Also, I remember paying a pretty hefty price for the chips
> several years ago. Maybe $25 a piece?  Anyway, I would like
> to cover my costs if I can come up with this stuff.

I remember how much I paid for my ProFile in 1983. In today's dollars,
it probably buys a jet airplane. I'm happy to pay $25 plus inflation for
the chip!

> I found that low-level formatting could fix a fair percentage
> of mechanically sound but non-functioning profiles. Evidently,
> the drives go out of alignment, and this solves that problem.

Yes, yes, yes. Count me in.

Michel.


From michel at arneill-py.sacramento.ca.us  Sat Oct 14 15:06:54 2006
From: michel at arneill-py.sacramento.ca.us (Michel Py)
Date: Sat, 14 Oct 2006 12:06:54 -0700
Subject: [Apple3-L]  wanted for www.apple3.org
In-Reply-To: <DD7FE473A8C3C245ADA2A2FE1709D90B1C8AD8@server2003.arneill-py.sacramento.ca.us>
Message-ID: <DD7FE473A8C3C245ADA2A2FE1709D90B1C8ADC@server2003.arneill-py.sacramento.ca.us>

Hi fellows,

Here's a list of stuff that I would like to have for the web site:

- Anything you would like to see there
- Catalyst (preferably latest version) manuals and unprotected disks.
- Word Juggler (ditto)
- Pfs:file (ditto)

Michel.


Thanks to Paul Santa-Maria we now have a
reasonable manual library on-line:

Apple III Apple Writer III Part 1 - For New Users.PDF
Apple III Apple Writer III Word Processing Langage.PDF
Apple III CP-M Reference Manual.PDF
Apple III Microsoft BASIC Reference Manual (CP-M).PDF
Apple III Owner's Guide.PDF
Apple III Pascal - Introduction, Filer and Editor.pdf
Apple III Pascal - Programmer's Manual Volume 1.PDF
Apple III Pascal - Programmer's Manual Volume 2.PDF
Apple III Pascal 1.1 Update.PDF
Apple III Plus Addendum to the Standard Device Drivers Manual.PDF
Apple III Softcard III Installation and Operation Manual.PDF
Apple III SOS Device Driver Writer's Guide.PDF
Apple III SOS Reference Manual Volume 1 - How SOS Works.PDF
Apple III SOS Reference Manual Volume 1 - The SOS Calls.PDF
Apple III Standard Device Drivers Manual rev C.PDF
Apple III Standard Device Drivers Manual.PDF
OnThree Apple III BOS User' Guide.pdf
OnThree Apple III DeskTop Manager.pdf
Osborne McGraw-Hill Guide to your Apple IIIA3 Guide.pdf
Rick Sidwell Undocumented Apple III SOS Features.pdf
Sun Remarketing Do-it-yourself Guide for the Apple III.pdf


